Home / Math and Physics Files / Physics / E&M / Electrostatics / bowl / bowl in toroidals / Support doc files
bowl bug 11_27_15 REVIEWED
DOCX · 45.2 KB
Open DOCX file
Phil's dated working note (PhL, 1.27.15) checking his bowl charge density result. He evaluates σ at the bowl edge and center, finds it blows up for the flat disk (u0 → π) and realizes R → ∞ must be handled at the same time. He then re-derives σ = -(1/4π)(1/hu)∂uV from boundary conditions, questioning covariant versus contravariant components and the metric factors. The problem is not yet fixed.
AI-written summary; may contain errors. This description is approximate.
Extracted text (machine-read; may contain errors)
Bug found with σ on the bowl. PhL 1.27.15
I had trouble here with the disk limit of σin and this problem is explored more in v2 of this doc with the same title. I failed to realize that you have to handle R→∞ at the same time. I then went off pondering whether my whole understanding of σ is correct! All resolved now.
Here is the problem. The first question is OK, but not the second.
Question 1: I say that σ is infinite at the bowl edge. How does that appear in my result? I never checked on that.
σ+ = σin = ( V0/4π2R) [ (B/A) – tan-1(B/A)]
A = cos(u0/2) and B =
At the bowl edge, we are at the focal point so we have ξ → +∞. Then B → ∞ and
σin(near edge) = ( V0/4π2R) [ (B/A) – π/2 ] ≈ ( V0/4π2R) (B/A)
Now B/A = (chξ)1/2/ [cos(u0/2)] so the answer close to the edge is
σin(near edge) = ( V0/4π2R) (chξ)1/2/ [cos(u0/2)]
which does indeed blow up as claimed as ξ → ∞.
Question 2. How about at the bowl center? There ξ → 0 and we get B = = . Then
B/A = / [cos(u0/2) ]
Now = sin(u0/2)
B/A = sin(u0/2)/ [cos(u0/2) ] = tan(u0/2)
and then we have
σin(at center) = ( V0/4π2R) [ tan(u0/2) – tan-1(tan(u0/2))]
= ( V0/4π2R) [ tan(u0/2) – u0/2]
Consider the sequence of upper bowls from large to small so u0 → π from below.
This says that σin (and σout which differs by a constant) blows up for the flat disk at disk center!
This result I am sure is wrong. So we have a new problem.
Time to check my calculation of σ starting with (4.1). I need to show that it replicates the flat disk charge distribution
Question 3: Let's start with the full σin result and take it to the flat disk limit. Here is my full result
σ+ = σin = ( V0/4π2R) [ (B/A) – tan-1(B/A)]
A = cos(u0/2) and B =
The flat disk has u0 = π and then
A = cos(π/2) = 0 B =
The limit then says
σ+ = σin = ( V0/4π2R) [ (B/0) – tan-1(B/0)]
= ( V0/4π2R) [ ∞ – π/2]
So something is WRONG with my σ result! I should have checked this limit when I wrote the doc. Stupid. [ again I overlook the fact that R → ∞ in the disk limit ]
Check the calculation of σ
I start with
V(ξ,u) = V0 !Syntax Error, Idτ Piτ-1/2(chξ) ch[(π–u0)τ] ch[(π+u0-u)τ]/ ch2(πτ) (2.8)
σ+ = – (1/4π) (1/hu) ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0 1/hu = (chξ - cosu)/a
Where do I get this second line from? No reference is given. Is this result in any of my web docs? I do have this in SI units,
Dn1 - Dn2 = nfree or [ε1E1n - ε2E2n] = nfree (1.1.47)
Consider a boundary like this
Suppose 2 = metal and 1 = vacuum. We then have
[ε1E1n - ε2E2n] = nfree → ε0E1n = nfree
Translate this to say
σ = ε0En SI units
So far so good. Meanwhile,
E = - grad V
We look this up in tensor doc where we have
[grad f](x) = (∂if ) ei
[grad f](x) = (∂if ) ei = (1/hi2) (∂if ) ei
[grad f](x) = hi(∂if ) i = (1/hi) (∂if ) // M&S 1.05 (10.1.17)
or
[grad V](x) = (∂iV ) ei
[grad V](x) = (∂iV ) ei = (1/hi2) (∂iV ) ei
[grad V](x) = hi(∂iV ) i = (1/hi) (∂iV ) i // M&S 1.05 (10.1.17)
where italic V means it is a function of the curvilinear coordinates. Assume that i is a unit vector in curvilinear coordinates which is normal to our surface of interest, which would be u for our case study. Then
[grad V](x) = (1/hu) (∂uV ) u
Then
E = - grad V Euu = - (1/hu) (∂uV ) u Eu = - (1/hu) (∂uV )
and then finally
σ = ε0Eu = - ε0 (1/hu) (∂uV )
and then divide by 4πε0 to get cgs units
σ = ε0Eu = - (1/4π) (1/hu) (∂uV )
and this is what I used.
Question: But there is something unclear to me here. Go back to
[ε1E1n - ε2E2n] = nfree
Are these E-field component covariant or contravariant !!! Go back to the derivation (where I have fixed the bad reference which was 1.1.13),
div D = ρfree ∫V ρfree dV = ∫S D dS (1.1.32)
Now how do you do this in covariant notation?
D dS = DidSi = DidSi
My lines doc does not address this question. In the n-piped discussion I do mention area with covariant index stuff, and there fore example I have
dA'n = J2(Πi≠ndx'i) e'n since (e'n)i = δni (7.18.1) (8.4.c.5)
where we are in x'-space. I show in toroidals.doc that
J = hξhuhφ =
If I then set n = 2 for the u coordinate, we get
dA'n = J2(Πi≠ndx'i) e'n
dAu = J2 dξdφ eu
dSu = J2 dξdφ eu
Then we have
D dS = ( Du eu) ( J2 dξdφ eu) = Du J2 dξdφ
so it is the contravariant component ! Then we really have
[ε1En1 - ε2En2] = nfree
[ε1Eu1 - ε2Eu2] = σ
εoEu1 = σ
We now trace through the above discussion.
[grad V](x) = (∂iV ) ei
[grad V](x) = (∂iV ) ei = (1/hi2) (∂iV ) ei
[grad V](x) = hi(∂iV ) i = (1/hi) (∂iV ) i // M&S 1.05 (10.1.17)
E = - grad V Euu = - (1/hu) (∂uV ) u Eu = - (1/hu) (∂uV )
Eu = - (1/hu) (∂uV )
Then
σ = εoEu1 = - ε0 (1/hu)(∂uV ) // with an upper index!
So my document should say not this
σ+ = – (1/4π) (1/hu) ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0 1/hu = (chξ - cosu)/a
σ– = +(1/4π) (1/hu) ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0+2π // cgs units selected here (4.1)
but this
σ+ = – (1/4π) (1/hu) ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0 1/hu = (chξ - cosu)/a
σ– = +(1/4π) (1/hu) ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0+2π // cgs units selected here (4.1)
So this is the first thing I have found to be done wrong. Now we have
∂i = Σj gij∂j = gii∂i
For i = 2 = u this says
∂u = guu∂i = hu2 ∂u
∂u = hu-2∂u
Then I would seem to get
σ+ = – (1/4π) (1/hu)3 ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0 1/hu = (chξ - cosu)/a
σ– = +(1/4π) (1/hu)3 ∂uV(ξ,u)|u=u0+2π // cgs units selected here (4.1)
Basically this adds an extra factor of (1/hu)2 to my charge densities. Note that
1/hu = (chξ - cosu)/a
(1/hu)2 = (chξ - cosu)2/a2 = B4/a2
Then my new charge density results (if everything ELSE was done correctly) would be
σ+ = σin = ( V0/4π2R) [ (B/A) – tan-1(B/A)] (B4/a2)
A = cos(u0/2) and B = B2 = chξ - cosu0
How does this change the limit u0 ≠ π ? The problem remains unrepaired! A → 0 and σ → ∞ for any ξ.
I have some major problems here. I will respond to the guy first, and then tackle these problems. This might result in a major rewrite of bowl doc!